The Aftermath

January 16, 2008 on 4:35 pm | In Foobars, Updates by Josh Jones |

It seems like it’s about time for a follow-up on things from yesterday.

First, I just want to apologize for the regular-style blog post about it yesterday. Hopefully this will be the (picture, bold, and italics-free) blog post many of you would have liked to have seen yesterday.

The current status: we believe to have refunded everybody who was incorrectly billed at this point. This was pretty much finished yesterday at 3pm, but there were a few stragglers who we got today. If you were charged and haven’t seen the refund show up on your credit card / bank statement yet, try calling your bank. Lots of places take a day or two or three or even four to update their statements even if the money’s already back in, but they should see it (by tomorrow for sure) if you call them.

If this/these erroneous charge(s) by us resulted in you having any sort of overdraft/bounced check/nsf fee from your financial institution, please contact our support team from the web panel. We’d just like to request that you include a copy of your statement with the necessary info showing the fees. It can be either a paper statement or a print out of your online statement, or even a screenshot of your online statement and it can be scanned and attached to your support message via our support form or faxed to us at 714-990-2600. If you fax it, please be sure to write your domain name or DreamHost account number on the fax. When we get this, we will put money on your credit card equal to the amount your bank charged you, as well as give you a DreamHost account credit for the same amount on top of that.

Another thing… if you’ve decided because of this fiasco you’d like to cancel hosting with us, we will allow you to get a full credit card refund of any unused portion of your pre-paid contract, even if you’re past our standard 97 day money-back guarantee. To do so, just close your account as normal from our web panel (”Billing > Manage Account” area). Then, after it’s done, write into support and let them know you’d like to get your remaining account credit refunded to your credit card due to the billing snafu of January 15th and we’ll be happy to comply.

Checks to Protect Your Balances

Finally, here are the precautions we’ve now added to our billing system to make sure nothing like this happen ever again:

1. Our biller service will no longer accept a date in the future.
2. This whole time, we did have an option to specify “never automatically bill me more than $X in a day” on our web panel. Of course, not too many people had this set, and why would they have to? Nevertheless, we’ve made a change now that even if you don’t have a specific daily limit set our system will not allow billing you in one day more than 50% more than the most you’ve ever authorized in the past.
3. Our rebiller does an automatic filling-in of old charges when it finds some missing. This should never actually happen anyway, but we’ve added a new check that if it ever finds itself filling in more than 3 missing charges on any account it stops immediately and notifies our financial team.
4. We’ve also added an overall check where if the total number of payments in a day are more than double the average number of payments we’ve gotten on that calendar day for the last seven months it fails and notifies our financial team.

And that’s it.. I hope this puts things more or less behind us. And remember, if you have any specific issues, our support team is always there!

And of course, my sincere apologies for all of this.

Thanks,
Josh Jones

P.S. I apologize for that joke about the triple billing in the newsletter thing too, but you have to admit, it was kind of ironic that I actually did screw up billing less than a week later.

P.P.S. Some of you have attempted to email us directly with information about unresolved issues stemming from this billing fiasco and have received autoresponders telling you you can’t email us directly. That restriction was unintentional has now been removed so please re-send us your email if you have not already contacted us through other means.

342 Comments »

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  1. 1

    That’s more like it. Thanks for the update.

    Comment by Chris — January 16, 2008 #

  2. 2

    Those new safeguards sound very good, but have you purchased a keyboard with larger keys?

    Comment by pace — January 16, 2008 #

  3. 3

    To be honest, i appreciated the style of apology. I’m sick of all this BS that get put out from big companies. Dreamhost’s approach was done the way i expect them to do things. Professionally without getting their heads caught up their A$$es.
    Thanks guys for telling it like it is and keeping it real.

    One point though, for this kind of kafuffle i would expect compensation from Dreamhost. Luckily my card bounced the overpayments back (A plus Debit Credit cards!), but for others it did cause major issues.

    Comment by Free-VO — January 16, 2008 #

  4. 4

    hahaha… josh is awesome, i want to buy him a beer…

    Comment by Kris — January 16, 2008 #

  5. 5

    *begin sarcasm*

    THERE’S BOLD TEXT IN YOUR POST! ARGH! I’M OUTTA HERE, MISTER!

    *end sarcasm*

    Seriously, you’re doing well. I’m very happy to be with Dreamhost.

    Comment by nessa — January 16, 2008 #

  6. 6

    Two words Josh…

    Change Management

    1. What are you doing
    2. Who will it affect
    3. What could go wrong?
    4. Mandatory backout plan
    5. Sanity check from qualified second person to catch stupid mistakes.

    I would have been crucified on the front lawn of my company had I done this.

    Comment by spiral — January 16, 2008 #

  7. 7

    Thanks for the update Josh.

    For the love of pete, though, please call/FAX/e-mail/whatever MW/MWisbanned and get the information to wire him some money so he can stop being fixated with this blog and buy his groceries!

    -Peace

    Comment by just saying — January 16, 2008 #

  8. 8

    Sorry guys. I’ve been here for what, almost 7 years now I think. And that’s about enough for me. Yesterday was the icing on the cake, and your handling of it doubly so. I stuck around through the last 2-3 years because I remembered how awesome your service was back when I first signed up. I stuck it out through the periodic datacenter outages, random panel problems, stuff occasionally just not working, and after being told that adding 40gb to my dedicated server’s hard disk would cost me a hundred bucks a month. I even stuck around after the colossal farkup you called An Ongoing Disaster (http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/08/01/anatomy-of-an-ongoing-disaster/).

    At this point though, I’m not really interested in helping you guys learn from your mistakes. I’m more interested in learning from mine. And I believe my mistake at this point was sticking it out.

    Comment by Yet Another Disgruntled DH Customer — January 16, 2008 #

  9. 9

    I appreciated the style of apology as well. Most companies would just say they had an issue and it would get fixed. I thought it was great how you kept a level of transparency in explaining exactly what happened.

    Of course, there are always going to be people who complain, whether they got overdrawn past the $5.06 they had in their bank account or whatever.

    While I hope there are no more big problems in the future, I appreciate the way you handled it.

    Oh, and LOL @ Pace for the bigger keyboard comment.

    Comment by Andy — January 16, 2008 #

  10. 10

    You guys are great and I appreciated the humour. The people who are upset because they’d get fired for being honest about making mistakes at their jobs need better jobs.

    Comment by Andrew — January 16, 2008 #

  11. 11

    One third of the first 15 comments are from the same “nick” - sigh. I’m really trying to feel some empathy for him, but sorry … I wish the system actually *could* block his blather at this point. ;-)

    Comment by rlparker — January 16, 2008 #

  12. 12

    haha… dude you need to tell your wife to sit down and shutup and give her a good ole fashioned smackin…. hahahahaha…. sorry dude but youre whipped, tell the lady to calm down and if youre in need of food break into your neighbors house and raid the fridge (then do it in their bed…thats always a good touch)

    Comment by Kris — January 16, 2008 #

  13. 13

    Josh, thank you for stepping forward again. I for one am very glad you did not commit ritual suicide… as someone on the main blog stated, it is not just the error because mistakes do happen, it is how it is handled that makes a difference.

    I don’t blame anyone who was upset, but you guys did acknowledge and begin fixing the problem right away — and that is still unusual for many businesses. I frankly have had more trouble dealing with my business bank, my merchant account, and my health insurance company, waiting sometimes weeks and months for things to get fixed, with nowhere near as much updating as I’ve gotten from DH. Still, the tone of the first blog post came off pretty light.

    Thank you for immediately beginning to refund people. Thank you for the solid, clear apology — and very specific information about what folks need to do to get their money back. Because of the scope of this, giving people more than just a refund of the overdraft, but also a credit, is the right thing to do. I do hope that quality control/redundancy becomes a larger priority for the company, because I’d like to be with DH for another five+ years.

    Comment by Noir Dame — January 16, 2008 #

  14. 14

    @ MW is spam banned again - old, tired, repetitive, whining, bitching, and kvetching rants only make you appear to be a basket case not worthy of attention.

    An if you really, honestly, can’t find a more productive way to spend your time or to deal with your frustrations over this, I hope you get hit by a bus. Seriously!

    Comment by rlparker — January 16, 2008 #

  15. 15

    Ummm, what about the accounts that were wrongly suspended based on the billing error? Mine is still down! To me this is WAY more annoying than a billing error….

    Comment by guest — January 16, 2008 #

  16. 16

    “I don’t blame anyone who was upset, but you guys did acknowledge and begin fixing the problem right away — and that is still unusual for many businesses.”

    Ditto to both of your sentiments. Anyone who was upset or angered over this, or chooses to cancel their account, is not to be blamed — and certainly Josh shows no sign of blaming them.

    Equally, thanks, Josh, for fixing this quickly.

    When we get this, we will put money on your credit card equal to the amount your bank charged you, as well as give you a DreamHost account credit for the same amount on top of that.

    Another thing… if you’ve decided because of this fiasco you’d like to cancel hosting with us, we will allow you to get a full credit card refund of any unused portion of your pre-paid contract, even if you’re past our standard 97 day money-back guarantee.

    I don’t see what anyone can ask more than this. This is fair.

    I mean people… even if you think this is the worst screw-up since I don’t know when, is DreamHost not at least treating you fairly today?

    Comment by Christoph — January 16, 2008 #

  17. 17

    You guys are great and I appreciated the humour. The people who are upset because they’d get fired for being honest about making mistakes at their jobs need better jobs.

    You’re missing the point… like most people do. You and your team establish a process where changes that will affect lots of people have to be documented and have a sane backout plan *and* be checked over before they are put into action.

    Fired for making mistakes, no - that’s just stupid, people make mistakes, that’s life.
    Fired for not following established procedures? Heck yes - the procedure is put there to help catch mistakes.

    Comment by spiral — January 16, 2008 #

  18. 18

    Thank you Josh. I give your professional response a nod. We’ve been with DH for something like 6 years and believe you all are absolutely professional in how you handle so many things in this business. This was the approach I needed to hear to substantiate staying with DH to my coworkers, bosses and clients.

    (just an aside: I know many comments have said “I love the goofiness” but how many of those people are in charge of multi-million-dollar companies? How many of them WILL EVER be in charge of one?)

    Oh, and would someone please take up a collection for MWisSpamBannedAgain? I have to say I’m starting to doubt the story (maybe he/she is from another hosting company trying to make DH look bad?)

    Comment by Jeremy — January 16, 2008 #

  19. 19

    its coincidental, not ironic

    Comment by paul — January 16, 2008 #

  20. 20

    “I mean people… even if you think this is the worst screw-up since I don’t know when, is DreamHost not at least treating you fairly today?”

    No.

    In 7 years, never have I been offered or granted any compensation from lost revenue or lost confidence due to downtimes caused by problems on their end due to mistakes that Dreamhost has made, or poor judgment calls on the part of Dreamhost staff. My support history is full of responses to error and downtime reports that say, in essence, “It looks like we messed this thing up.” Even my support ticket from yesterday regarding an important discussion list that suddenly vanished was answered with “Well, it works now. I don’t know why it didn’t before.”

    That’s simply no longer acceptable.

    Given the choice between someone who has caused me major headaches in the past and tried to respond as best they could, and finding someone who doesn’t cause these kind of headaches to their customers, I’ll take the latter. Contrary to what everyone else seems to believe, getting a valid explanation when a business screws up like this isn’t the exception. It’s the norm. It’s just that dreamhost staff save some time by doing it in a blog post, rather than explaining to each customer why things broke on an as needed basis.

    Comment by Yet Another Disgruntled DH Customer — January 16, 2008 #

  21. 21

    @MW is spam banned again - Wow. You misread my post pretty significantly.

    I don’t have a problem with you being “outraged”, and the banking system can suck. I even understand your frustration.

    My point was that you have shared all that with us ad nauseum for two days now; we “get it” that you are pissed and frustrated.

    I don’t wish you dead … I do wish you would shut up about your misery already. Now, if you can’t do that, then I hope that bus runs over you and at least mangles you enough so you can’t type for a day or two ;-)

    Kisses to you too!

    Comment by rlparker — January 16, 2008 #

  22. 22

    Major pat on the back to Josh for this blog post.

    There is a middle road between corporate-speak and inappropriate silliness, and Josh’s new post shows how it ought to be done.

    I’m crossing my fingers that the fallout isn’t as bad as I fear it may be. Dreamhost has been berry berry good to me, and I want them to succeed.

    Comment by hogarth — January 16, 2008 #

  23. 23

    This is the blog post you should have made yesterday, you incompetent cockbags.

    Comment by scotty — January 16, 2008 #

  24. 24

    Dreamhost still has some of the worst uptime. So duplicate billing is kind of ironic considering “refunds for downtime” are more in order. Bad technology all around.

    Comment by JustinU — January 16, 2008 #

  25. 25

    @Yet Another Disgruntled DH Customer Says, on Hanuary 16th, 2008 at 5:39:- “In 7 years, never have I been offered or granted any compensation from lost revenue or lost confidence due to downtimes caused by problems on their end due to mistakes that Dreamhost has made, or poor judgment calls on the part of Dreamhost staff.”

    Was there something in the TOS you read when you signed up that made you believe you would be?

    It sounds to me you have come to the conclusion that DH is not for you, and that’s fair enough. Good luck; hopefully you will find a webhost that meets *your* needs as well as DreamHost has met mine since 1998, :-)

    Comment by rlparker — January 16, 2008 #

  26. 26

    I understand and appreciate the attempt to communicate what was happening. However, humor should never be used when you have erroneously taken large amounts of money from people. For most of the people who this incident put in a tight financial situation, the humor was received as more of a condescending attitude that states we don’t really care how much we hurt you. Financial hardship is rarely humorous.
    BTW, I’m another person who has called their bank this evening and the refund has not shown up on the bank systems at all. This incident might not just lead to overdraft fees for me. It might result in the electricity and phone service at my home being turned off if my bill payments bounce due to the overdrafts caused by Dreamhosts actions.

    Comment by Tim Covington — January 16, 2008 #

  27. 27

    “Was there something in the TOS you read when you signed up that made you believe you would be?”

    Nope. But I didn’t see anything in there really about “sometimes we’ll make mistakes that will cause your server to go down, and even if it’s out fault it’s your problem.”

    I don’t think that expecting my web host to stay up is too much to ask. When that doesn’t happen, I don’t think it’s at all out of line to expect some kind of compensation, at the very least to the tune of “Here’s a pro-rated credit to your account based on how long we were not providing you the service for which you are paying.” I’ve never asked them to pay me for whay I lost when stuff blew up.

    But by way of example, one month my dedicated server was up and down periodically due to a memory issue caused by an upgrade they performed. They then asked me to pay for the memory upgrade on the machine, to compensate. I refused, saying it was their problem, and that if my machine could not handle the upgrade, that should have been identified before the upgrade. Eventually they replaced the memory themselves. But even though my box was up and down all month, I still paid full price for the month.

    That, I do not think is fair. And I never will. I was willing to put up with it because I remember when it wasn’t that way. And because I believed things would smooth out.

    I no longer believe that to be the case.

    Comment by Yet Another Disgruntled DH Customer — January 16, 2008 #

  28. 28

    @MW I’ve totally forgotten about this entire fiasco. I have refocused my attention on hating you. STFU x infinity.

    Your time would be better spent writing a thoughtful email to DH about your issue. Too late for that now. I’d drop you faster than you’re dropping your feces on this thread.

    2c

    Comment by MWneedstoSTFU — January 16, 2008 #

  29. 29

    Amusing commentary as always

    What i’d love to see is how much the ‘reality’ differs from the hype in the next month or so.

    I’ll be willing to bet that in the cold, hard light most people will bitch and moan and most will *stay exactly where they are* …

    I won’t go into the reasons why, however mistakes happen, the alternatives and the effort required to make the change are too great and with a little bit of hindsight the overwhelming majority of people will go ‘oh well, people f-up, that’s just life… at least they were honest about it and I got my money back’.

    If it doesn’t *materially* impact on their life, most won’t change, ie they will accept that the amount of time/money/effot to change would far far *FAR* outweigh the lost time/revenue/sanity than just staying put and seeing that this is a mistake that won’t happen again.

    Adam

    Comment by Adam — January 16, 2008 #

  30. 30

    All I have to say is this: The reason I came to Dreamhost is that my previous provider (atlantic.net) was charging me $200 at the same time every year when I was on monthly payments. It sometimes took a month to get that money back and I was the only person I knew of with this glitch. A month. Big fucking priority, eh?

    If my money is back soon and my fee from my car payment bouncing is paid is see no reason to leave dreamhost.

    Everybody messes up several times in their life. No company is prefect. All the people leaving are just upping the chance for their new company to fuck up. Dreamhost has already had theirs and will learn from it.

    I mean… it obviously can’t happen again, right?

    Right?

    Comment by psychomelody — January 16, 2008 #

  31. 31

    I liked yesterday’s post better.

    Ha ha, but thanks for the update, I think you’re handling it well. We all make flubs… it’s just pretty damned scary when it impacts so many people’s lives (hell, I’d be shell shocked too!).

    By the way, has anyone else figured out that this could have all been a non-issue if everyone put a DAILY LIMIT ON THEIR CARD in the DH cpanel! That was the very FIRST thing I did, I don’t know why so many of you skipped this step! If you had, you would’ve only been charged maybe a hundred or so (that’s not gonna break the bank), then have it refunded about an hour later. No tears!

    Comment by Doctor K — January 16, 2008 #

  32. 32

    @Yet Another Disgruntled DH Customer Says, on January 16th, 2008 at 5:58 pm: - “… I didn’t see anything in there really about “sometimes we’ll make mistakes that will cause your server to go down, and even if it’s out fault it’s your problem.”

    That’s unfortunate, because that clause is there, though not in the exact words you used. It is a very common clause in most TOSs for webhosting services, ISPs, etc.

    I understand your frustration over paying for a month of dedicated server hosting you didn’t get because of the RAM issue; I would not have been “willing to put up with it” if I didn’t think it was fair.

    That said, if I *had* been willing to put up with it, for whatever reason, I would have considered it a closed issue. ;-)

    You are doing the right thing. If your trust and confidence in any company you are dealing with erodes to a point beneath your comfort level, it is time to move on.

    I was sincere in my wishes of “good luck”!

    Comment by rlparker — January 16, 2008 #

  33. 33

    @Doctor K

    Stop it, stop it now! ..

    Your logic, reasoning and balanced commentary has no place in forum comments like this!

    I expect overly irrational behaviour, abuse and slander at every possible corner!

    I want exclamation marks goshdarnit!

    :)

    Adam

    Comment by Adam — January 16, 2008 #

  34. 34

    @MW is spam banned again Says, on January 16th, 2008 at 6:02 pm: -
    “Why is he pretending that nobody received duplicate charges? Why is he ignoring it? It’s WEIRD. It’s SUSPECT.”

    I call shenanigans on that one!

    Maybe if you spent more time reading and less time ranting you would realize that Josh has not pretended that at all. He clearly acknowledges that some where charged multiple times.

    You are the “only one blowing this note” because everybody else can *read*.

    I was charged multiple times, and refunded, multiple times. I see no reason why the same will not happen for you. Mine likely “cleared” faster than yours because mine was a charge card, not a debit card or a link to a bank direct payment.

    Comment by rlparker — January 16, 2008 #

  35. 35

    this blog post didn’t make me laugh
    =(

    yesterdays was a LOT better

    Comment by smyl — January 16, 2008 #

  36. 36

    how about you pay me interest on the money you’ve denied [still! you idiots] me access to.

    30% compounded hourly sound fair to me. (I’ll do the math. I’m pretty sure you’d mess it up)

    [read: you are really bad at your job. Is your mother even proud of you?]

    Comment by chadvavra — January 16, 2008 #

  37. 37

    @ Adam

    Heh heh, whoops, my bad, what I meant was DAMN YOU DH!!!! YOUR INFANTILE HUMOUR HAS NO PLACE IN MY SERIOUS MONOTONOUS BORING EXISTENCE!!! EXPECT LESS TOMFOOLERY AND BETTER CHECKS AN D BALANCES ON YOUR SYSTEM, AND THERE”D BETTER BE A ROBUST CHANGE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM GODDAMMIT, AND I DON”T MEAN ROBUST LIKE YOUR BILLING SYSTEM!!!!!! I WANT COMPENSATION!!! Oh, and DREAMHOST, YOU KICKED MY DOG AND NOW MY DOG IS SICK!!!!

    How was that, too much? LOL :)

    Comment by Doctor K — January 16, 2008 #

  38. 38

    I am glad for today’s post - I’ve been with Dreamhost for nearly 6 years too - I don’t intend to leave _yet_ but the mess up couldn’t have happened at a worst time for me - grad student on a scholarship (with monthly allowances which are _LATE_) and my credit card is my last minute stopgap for food right now. (oh well, grad students _are_ supposed to live on cheap ramen)

    Still, I can’t help but empathize for the problem, I mean, it is a colossal thing to realize when you wake up. So yes. I appreciate this post, the other one really did make me see red because I was contemplating not being able to make rent or buy groceries. Just, make sure it won’t happen again, mmkay? Thanks. I’ll probably change my credit card settings as well to make doubly sure.

    Comment by Nin Harris — January 16, 2008 #

  39. 39

    Wow. Someone call the wahhmbulance.

    Anyway, two good posts, both on the up and up. Great job, terrible mistake, kinda chafed by it but glad I got my money back. Moving on. Life’s too short. :)

    Comment by phoenix — January 16, 2008 #

  40. 40

    Hey, I’m not saying DH didn’t screw up, coz they did and they need to apologise and fix the damage… which is what they’re doing.

    Did DH charge over your set daily limit? If so, then consider my whole argument void.

    Comment by Doctor K — January 16, 2008 #

  41. 41

    Thank you.

    The one thing I don’t think you’ve addressed is that we only received an email _after_ the problem was fixed. I’ve heard arguments back and forth about the feasibility of sending all your customers an email, but it would have made me feel a lot less upset to see something in my inbox that morning that said “Don’t panic, we know something is wrong here and we’ll have an update shortly.”

    Comment by Chris — January 16, 2008 #

  42. 42

    @doctor k

    not enough emoness

    and you still have a roof…

    Comment by smyl — January 16, 2008 #

  43. 43

    One more thing that I think might be valuable for everyone:

    http://lifehacker.com/software/emergency/how-to-set-up-and-use-an-emergency-fund-197050.php
    http://www.lifehacker.com/software/top/do-you-have-an-emergency-fund-185378.php

    Good tips for everyone. As they say, shit happens! :D

    Comment by phoenix — January 16, 2008 #

  44. 44

    @MW is spam banned again Says, on January 16th, 2008 at 6:27 pm: - “rlparker, you’re wrong. He didn’t say that people had duplicate charges.”

    Actually, you are absolutely correct about that, and I *was* wrong. It wasn’t Josh that said that at all - I read it in the email(s) I received. Shenanigans on me!

    DreamHost clearly knows, and has acknowledged in their email, that some customers were billed multiple times. Given that, I don’t care whether Josh goes into the particulars of that or not ; it stands on it’s own as a fact and is self-evident to those effected. ;-)

    Comment by rlparker — January 16, 2008 #

  45. 45

    I feel like i’m reading the same comments over and over again… so i’m going to say something that nobody has said yet:

    WHEN I SEE A SHAVED CAT IT GETS ME ALL TINGLY IN THE PANTS….

    Comment by Kris — January 16, 2008 #

  46. 46

    @Kris
    what about the hairless cats?
    do they make you tingly too?

    Comment by smyl — January 16, 2008 #

  47. 47

    I remember once I had a plumber over to fix my dishwasher. The charge was 98 bucks, unfortunately when he brought in the card machine to do the transaction, he added 3 zeros.

    Imagine my suprise when the bank called me to verify a 98 thousand dollar charge.

    Even more so that the bank would PROCESS this charge when my credit limit was something like 10k.

    no harm no foul, the guy did fix my dishwasher and the mistake was corrected.

    Just a story, nothing more.

    Comment by Zee — January 16, 2008 #

  48. 48

    Your incompetence has lost you our business.

    Comment by CustomerNoMore — January 16, 2008 #

  49. 49

    ‘MW is spam banned again’ jesus shut the fuck up already. They get the god damned point.

    go back to your bitching wife before she gets more pissed off.

    Comment by daniel — January 16, 2008 #

  50. 50

    @MW is spam banned
    whats your address and telephone number? I’ll have the nearest pizza place send you a large pepperoni so you don’t go hungry tonight…

    Comment by Kris — January 16, 2008 #

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