What a CON!
August 2, 2007 on 11:56 am | In Business, Insider View, New Features, Promotions, Tech News by Josh Jones |
Well, it wasn’t a TOTAL con.
At least Dallas and I didn’t pay anything to go. He was on a panel about green hosting, and I got free admission by signing myself up as “press”. I guess in a way I’m paying now via this feeling of obligation to blog-post about it though.
Anyways, now I finally understand why we say we don’t go to hosting conferences.
They’re not for us.
Overall, we just got a really “businessy” feel from the whole thing. I mean… we can’t be the only host who’s just doing this until our band makes it big, right? And man, nobody told me to wear a logo collared short-sleeved shirt; the official uniform of hosting cons.
What Happened
Basically, we checked out the display booths (it looks like the new trend is to give away Wiis, iPhones, and Mini Coopers.. sadly, Dallas already has those, and I don’t want a Mini Cooper because I hate the environment), had three meetings, went to three talks, the best of which by far was Dallases panel. And that was just because I interrupted a lot.
We also went to the keynote, which was by some myspace founder guy, and probably the second most-famous person at the con showed up, Carson Daly.
(The most famous? Hmmm… well, I don’t see you reading the Last Call Blog, do I?)
The booths really didn’t do anything for me.. it was almost entirely places offering pre-packaged software (we use only open source or develop our own) and out-sourcing / reselling opportunities (again, we try to be as “vertically integrated” as possible, and don’t outsource anything besides our data centers and network connectivity.. plus, any add-on service we do add we develop (and fully control) ourselves).
We were a little shocked to find out that some fairly sizable hosts just use The Planet for their entire infrastructure… they don’t own any of their servers!
The talks didn’t really do anything for me.. I already knew all the gibberish Dallas was going to say.. so predictable, man!
The next talk, from a Tier1 Research guy, allowed me to self-affirm the seemingly irrational disdain I’ve always held for market research companies. His talk was entitled “Marketing Web Hosting Services in a Rapidly Transforming Market” and basically his message was “I think everybody should partner with Microsoft and other value-added resellers to make more money by offering more junk to your customers.”
Exactly what we don’t want to do.
Oh, and he also threw in for good measure “Just offering lots of disk and bandwidth isn’t going to get you any more customers.” Ah, now that actually sounds like a pretty reasonable assumption, Philbert… if only it weren’t 100% exactly WRONG! “Research” is always easier when you just declare your hypothesis correct rather than bothering to actually test it…
(Ouch, my punches are un-pulled!)
(Oh yeah, and despite what I said before, bad stuff DID happen while we were away. A $64,000 rack of NetApp storage got dropped on the loading dock by the delivery guys! The gentle curving of the rack you see above is not to reduce wind resistance.)
The last talk we went to, before we decided we had to stop for fear of death (and not by boredom actually, but by freezing in the lecture halls!) was by founder of Open Hosting, entitled “Virtual Private Server Hosting with Utility Pricing.”
I had some high hopes for this talk; at least the guy giving it actually runs a web host! Unfortunately, it turned out to pretty much be a bust. I guess there’s just not a lot of insight to be gleaned from a host with 2,000 times fewer customers than you!
Also, it turned out what this guy called “utility pricing” wasn’t anything of the sort. It wasn’t something cool like Amazon … instead, he had regular old (and not very generous) monthly plans with hefty overage fees for excess CPU and memory.
The whole point of “utility pricing” is if you don’t actually USE something, you don’t have to PAY for it! Not to still pay $19.95/month minimum no matter what! This guy has taken the worst from both worlds and combined them.. no “overselling” and yet still a high minimum monthly fee! Where’s the VALUE?
The Open Hosting guy also claimed that they were the only Linux-Vserver-based host in the U.S. Say whuuuuut?
Who Happened
On the bright side, every person we met was very nice… plus I got to taunt lunarpages, as well as eat lunch with the just-a-little-bit-less-cool-than-us Media Temple entourage. I also got to meet all my secret admirers, and let me tell you, THERE WERE A FEW.
Honestly, I guess if there’s any reason for us to ever go back to a hosting convention, apart from avoiding our smelly employees, it’d probably be the chance to try and recruit some decent “human capital”. That’s what it’s known as in the “biz”, which is what the biz is known as in the “biz.”
Oh, before I forget, there was maybe one more tiny thing that that came out of our three days in sunny Chicago. We got an idea for a brand new feature.. and it’s already ready to go!
Perhaps it was the Tier 1 guy yammering on about upselling, or maybe it was the Open Hosting guy’s illuminating discussion of Linux-Vserver, but we’re not here to play the blame game.
Nonetheless, for some reason, we’re now proud to announce our first entirely new product in a lonnnng time: the massively simple, tremendously useful, surprisingly cheap, and enticingly prestigious, currently invite-only DreamHost PS!
(Yep, DreamHost just became one more American host offering Linux-VServer. And Open Hosting just became one American host offering Linux-VServer less special.)
64 Responses to “What a CON!”
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August 2nd, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Wait wait wait… you paid only 64 kilobucks for that NetApp? You guys got a hell of a deal compared to what NetApp quoted us for an EDU discounted, much smaller system.
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
[...] Original post by Josh Jones [...]
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Wait, so is the PS cost on top of what your account was credited before? Like, would it be, for me
112/year + (15 * 12) for the VPS?
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:47 pm
If you were to run MySQL, or use e-mail - does that reside within *YOUR* DreamHost PS account or is that still on a shared server?
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 pm
It wasn’t a new NetApp from NetApp themselves!
Yep, it’s on top.. think of it as an add-on, it uses your existing ram and bw allocations for whatever plan you’re on, just gives you your own guaranteed ram and cpu.
MySQL and email are still in our shared system.. it’s really just like shared except you get your own cpu and ram, and so can run persistent processes willy-nilly, name (and reboot) your own “server”, and get 2 unique IPs (one for the main machine IP and one for the main apache).
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Could you run your own programs on it since you have your own cpu amount to use?
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:15 pm
“Yep, it’s on top.. think of it as an add-on, it uses your existing _DISK_ and bw allocations for whatever plan you’re on, just gives you your own guaranteed ram and cpu.:
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Is there a good way to look at existing CPU reporting logs to gage how much ram/cpu you’d need on a PS?
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:33 pm
WTF? Another new feature?
But this one seems so cool that I must have it, now!
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Ahh…. that’s not even something we’d even considered. Hope it was shipped insured! Given that sort of damage I don’t think I’d trust those hard drives ever again.
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:45 pm
[...] has just announced that they are launching DreamHost Private [...]
August 2nd, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Hey Francis,
It’s kind of hard to gauge based on a shared server. However, it really is less than two minutes or so from changing the slider on our panel and having your server’s guaranteed RAM/CPU allotment changed. And the way we bill is 100% based on how much you use and for how long you used it.. we log every time you change the slider, and then show you on the panel your bill so far that period.
An example:
1 day @ 250MB => $.8333
2 days @ 2300MB => $15.3333
1 hour @ 150MB => $.0208
27 days @ 512MB => $46.0800
Total for the month: $62.27
August 2nd, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Some Questions:
Why 2 ip’s? Above states one for the machine (host) and one for apache. Why does apache need its own?
And if we name the host (example: myhost)… what would the full machine name be? Would it be myhost.dreamhost.com? And what about the ip for apache? If somebody did a traceroute on my website domain… what would the reverse dns be set to?
Also… I assume the new PS accounts will be moved to special PS servers. What are the specs and approx. how many accounts per server?
Just wondering… this sounds great!
August 2nd, 2007 at 5:21 pm
How much utilization can you expect (for, say, a forum) before the database becomes the bottleneck?
Anyway, this is great. It’d be even better if you could set ranges, like, “increase CPU xMHz if load goes above y, up to a maximum of z”. Even an API, so people can implement that themselves (using their new persistent processes)… :)
August 2nd, 2007 at 5:22 pm
@Adam: I am not a DS employee, just a lowely customer, but Josh Jones said in a previous post that you can run your own processes “willy-nilly.” My guess is that they are not going to allow things like game servers though (if that’s what you were thinking).
August 2nd, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Heyo..
2 ips just because it was easier for how our system currently works to give the apache its own ip from the main machine ip.. and then we also get the bonus of giving people “2 IPs!” instead of one!
It will be machine.dreamhost.com, and the apache’s ip would be apache2-machine.machine.dreamhost.com.
They will be moved to special PS servers, which are the same specs as a current shared hosting server.. as of now 2.3 GHz dual core opterons I believe. The number of PSes on a server will depend on the sizes of them, but the grand total will add up to 4000MB of ram, how much ram is on the server.. so that we will always be able to actually guarantee how much we guarantee! And, we have the ability to move a vserver from one host to another without needing to regenerate dns if somebody decides to scale their server up and their current host doesn’t have enough free ram to guarantee it at their new value. Anyway, at the low end, that works out to up to 27 accounts per server, on the high end, 2!
That is an interesting idea about the auto-adjusting the resources based on load too, HMM…
And it should be okay to run game servers, you’ve got your own virtual server now.. you shouldn’t be able to cause problems for anybody other than yourself!
August 2nd, 2007 at 6:03 pm
What are the firewall rules? Can we modify higher ports without root?
August 2nd, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Please, please, please give a Carolina boy an invite.
August 2nd, 2007 at 10:39 pm
The firewall is open by default, just like on our shared servers. You won’t be able to adjust it yourself and any settings would have to be machine-wide since there’s only one kernel shared by all the vps instances.
You can bind to ports above 1024 as a non-root user, yes.
Our standard terms of service regarding what types of processes you’re allowed to run still apply but you are free to run persistent or long-running processes that would not be appropriate on shared servers. DreamHost PS is a lot more open and flexible than any shared servers can be.
August 2nd, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Two questions:
* What kind of options do I have for reverse proxy w/ Apache? I want to run my TurboGears application at, say, :8080 and then access it at mydomain.tld at port 80; possibly mapping in other applications at mydomain.tld/foo
* I can still point my normal vanity domain to the PS, right? Or do I have to use $machine.dreamhost.com?
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:29 am
I like the “moved to special PS servers” part.
Does this mean that if I order the service, you move all my shell accounts and websites to some other box? I’m providing web hosting to a hobby group and it would be somewhat inconvenient to have the accounts on several boxes.
August 3rd, 2007 at 5:04 am
One question:
* Does this mean if I only want SOME stuff hosted on a fancy shmancy private server, I’ll have to sign up for another plan, drop a private server on top of it (hopefully not as hard as those delivery guys dropped that GINORMOUS rack of stuff on your delivery dock), and do the hokey-pokey with my files?
August 3rd, 2007 at 5:20 am
I assume this is billed monthly and can we go back to a regular shared hosting plan and drop the PS at any time? Or not? Also, if our account is within the 97-day money-back guarantee window, does that apply to the PS as well?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:18 am
Dallas,
Thanks for answering my question about binding to ports without root. I’ve got a few more if you don’t mind.
1. Are you using Xen?
2. How is bandwidth logged? I assume you can no longer parse the ftp logs and apache logs since users can now run apps and use bandwidth for anything. Are you going to log the traffic coming off the bridged interface?
3. From what I understand on your shared servers, you have two 100 mbit interfaces. One for 10.x NFS/internal network. The other for WAN traffic. If you’re using bridged networking and monitoring bytes over the virtual interface the NFS traffic would get caught up in that, right? Maybe two interfaces and defined routes on each virtualized OS?
4. Will jabber also run in this?
5. Will SSL with jabber work the same way that it does with shared? (eg. server.dreamhost.com has a ssl cert)
6. “Our standard terms of service regarding what types of processes you’re allowed to run still apply but you are free to run persistent or long-running processes that would not be appropriate on shared servers.”
From your TOS - “Any application that listens for inbound network connections (even if the application would otherwise be allowed) are not permitted.”
So no Shoutcast, game server, or Flash Media Server (assuming you have enough CPU/RAM & bound to a passive port)??
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:19 am
Ok, I’m a little confused here. Let’s say I have a L1 hosting plan ($10.00 / mo) and I add a PS on top of it @ 150GHz / 150MB of ram. Will my new bill be $15.00 or $25.00? I’m thinking the $25.00, but I’d like to clear that up.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:22 am
Jarin,
From the website “* plus shared hosting fee, …” So in your case it would be $25.00
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:27 am
Oops! #1 == Linux-Vserver. ;-)
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:48 am
damn, I like DH.
Sincerely,
proud DH customer
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:58 am
The best way to get an invite quick is to go to the “Private Servers > Enable PS” area on our web panel and pre-order!
You can still point your own domains to the server, yep!
For the reverse proxy, for now you can only do the same things with apache you can do on regular shared. We do plan on offering more flexibility through our system for people on PS though..
Yeah, if you order a PS, your _entire_ shared hosting account is moved over to it, hook, line, and sinker. You can add another account through our “Billing > Add Account” though if you want a separate group of users/domains/etc.. kept on regular shared.
It’s billed monthly and you can go back to regular shared at any time, though right now you have to ask support to do it rather than having it automated from our panel. Yes, our 97-day money back guarantee still applies!
Right now, bandwidth is logged like it is on a shared account, we just analyze logs. So, probably people could get away with using extra bandwidth. However, I’m not TOO worried about this. Dallas may be! We’ll probably eventually figure something out with the bridged interfaces, yep.
Jabber and jabber ssl should work exactly the same as on shared. We may do something to not activate jabber on PSes that don’t have it enabled, to save people a little memory overhead.
As for things like Shoutcast, game servers, flash media server.. again, Dallas is a little worried about monitoring bandwidth, but I’m not. I’m going to fight for everybody’s ability to run all these things! So, I guess it’s not exactly the same as our standard terms of service.. you will be able to run these things as long as they don’t somehow affect other PSes on your machine, which I believe they pretty much can’t.. except maybe by completely saturating a 100 mbs port. But that’d be pretty tough to do.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:59 am
“PLUS HOSTING FEE”?
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
How can I be down? Send me an invite and I won’t tell everyone that Media Temple has a cooler entourage is than you guys.
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Again, give a Carolina boy an invite and i’ll:
1.) Play 24 minutes in one game. 24 total points, rebounds, assists, and/or fouls guaranteed.
2.) Write one blog article.
3.) Read another monthly DH newsletter.
4.) Work on my list making skills.
Again, thanks.
V
August 3rd, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Hi,
Q1 - Does this mean setting up a Ruby on Rails application on this server will be no difference or complicated than what I have to do on my Dreamhost shared account? Are the same ruby gems in place etc?
Q2 - Will this assist with initial start up time for a Rails application? (i.e. current on my shared host it takes > 20seconds for the first page to come back on my application if no-one has hit it for a while - I can only assume this is dreamhost killing off the Ruby processes and then the time for them to have to be restarted)
Tks
August 3rd, 2007 at 2:35 pm
There’s yet another Stupid Unnecessary Domain Name ™ on your part… couldn’t you have used a logical subdomain like ps.dreamhost.com?
August 3rd, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Hmmm, so if I’ve an app that I’d like to run using PostgreSQL as the persistent store, sounds like I could do that.
Based on Josh’s “August 3rd, 2007 at 11:58 am” comment, it sounds like most-things-are-fine as long as one doesn’t abuse bandwidth while DH is still figuring out the best way to account for it.
I’m interested in Greg’s Q2 (comment 12:53 pm today): I’ve notice that my much-loved, but little used wiki (just 2 people a couple times a day) that can be sluggish, especially on first access. But at work, I run a mediawiki on a little-used box, so I know how such a small mediawiki can theoretically fly (in that case, it’s dedicated MySQL server was on the same box).
August 3rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Can I get a clarification on the ‘game server’ issue?
I’m preparing to deploy a game that runs 99% p2p, but needs a few static server processes hosted somewhere, and I was about to start shopping - I’d love to keep them here at DH! This would involve running a few persistent applications that listen on a few UDP ports, which is against your current TOS. I’d like to know if this would be allowed on a PS account before I sign up for one!
I’m also curious if moving to a PS would let me run a local instance of OpenLDAP to tie authentication of our website elements together cleanly? (Joomla, DokuWiki, phpBB, Mantis, ect.) mysql works for basic authentication, but none of those apps support fine grained authorization via mysql, IIRC…
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Likewise, I’m wondering about exactly what is going to be allowed as far as persistent processes… I’d love to get an IRC bnc or even eggdrop running, though that’s probably pushing it.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:31 pm
I’d like the ability to run MySQL on the same ps, not on a foreign host. I’ve had a couple of cases where my host system had normal response times, but the SQL timed out.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Does this mean we will be able to start a pack of 2 or 3 mongrels on the initial 150MB RAM rate? (this will need the ability to start map the 2 or 3 ports, etc)
If so thats great! :D
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:44 pm
You shoulda stayed a few days later for the Blogher Con which was also on Navy Pier. I guarantee we were a lot less smelly.
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Cool. I think I might come on board with this. I’ve already got a L3 plan but the guaranteed CPU/RAM allotments will be a plus. Maybe this will encourage me to continue working up my website. ;) I’m going over to sign up for a 150/150 addon right now.
I do have a question adding onto what others have said about bandwidth.
Do anonymous ftp transfers get monitored at all? I know that there are no file access reports that are given to us and that there is no way to limit it’s usage (I actually have lifted the one site’s limit because it kept getting hit) but I don’t know if the usage actually counts against the bandwidth for the month. Any clarification that?
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Well I have one more question before I signup…
If I actually do burst up to the 2300Mhz CPU or double RAM do I get billed for that? Also how long can a burst last for before I do get billed for it?
Just curious because I plan on running a forum for a community and I have wordpress using wp-cache as the main front-end. Kinda working it into a CMS type setup but not with all the unneeded extras that I couldn’t care less about.
August 4th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Wow, a lot to digest here… but it is starting to sound like a nice new service from DH!
After reading the ENTIRE page herein I’m still a bit foggy.
1) several questions posted still unanswered
2) I have prob 20+ domains, subdomains, sites, emails, forums, blogs, etc. running now at DH… therefore, I’m a wee bit concerned about potential DOWNTIME or the need for RECONFIG if ALL of that is being moved to a new, physically different server!?
3) if I can ‘point all my domains to that server’ does that mean I have to mod DNS for all those site? I don’t reg domains at DH so if DNS changes then I’d have to mod at the registrar manually? OR, is there some kinda internal pointer that DH will *automatically mod* after all is moved to diff server?
4) Ah, now for the kicker! If pricing is based on days, mins, seconds (per example above) then, if I use this for ONE DAY, then wanna switch back to good ol’ hosting, then does everything physically have to move… back-n-forth each time I turn ON/OFF?
Certainly there are huge gaps in my understanding of this new toy, but with so many eggs in the basket I’m not ready to jump without a better understanding and some assurances of UNBROKEN service.
Peace
August 4th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
how do i get a invite code?
August 4th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Dreamhost 推出 VPS 服务项目…
Dreamhost 终于开始贩售 VPS 虚拟个人服务器的服务，没想到也搞了个 invitation code 的机制，目前只对 DH 已有用户开放申请，可以到自己的 DH 控制面板里操作，定制激活后可以在 DH 拥有自定…
August 5th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Rob,
You need to be existing DreamHost customer; then access the DreamHost Web Panel and the Private Servers section: https://panel.dreamhost.com/index.cgi?tree=vserver.provision&
August 5th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
hmm, this is cool and all, but without allowing for mysql to be on there as well, really limited. it’s like giving someone candy, seeing them glow and smile, and then be like “oh ya, it’s actually chocolate covered ants”.
I like dh and all, but mediatemple actually has a php install with more than just the base level bachelor apartment sans closet setup. ffmpeg, imap, etc. so while this is a nice update, it’s still too little…
you guys gonna actually upgrade the base install at any point or just keep it so i have to custom install and wrack my head the whole time?
why not add 1 click installs for common php features that should be in there in the first place?
August 6th, 2007 at 5:06 am
Your blog is way not better than Google’s Blog. You introduce maybe one or two new features a month. I’ve seen them do something like that in a day. I’m just saying that I check my feed for Google about twice a day, and I don’t even aggregate this blog.
August 6th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Since long-running processes are allowed on the Private Servers, is there any reason why someone couldn’t run their own MySQL server within their PS if they were willing to pay for the processor/memory cycles? Even better, could the private server customers be moved to less heavily loaded shared MySQL servers to help match the fact that a PS is likely going to need extra database oomph to match the extra processing?
August 6th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
I’ll take a wild guess here and say that database power will roughly equal the amount of CPU/RAM you purchase for your VPS. Seeing as how DH clusters file servers, databases, and web servers (to my knowledge, at least) into little groups, all VPS clusters will share these. Then if it’s a VPS with a few of the upper tier VPS sizes there will be less people utilizing these. And in any case, less than if you have 50+ websites on a shared server, with probably multiple servers per cluster.
But just a wild guess. It’d still be nice to have VPS dedicated MySQL.
August 7th, 2007 at 4:16 am
[...] di Dreamhost PS sarà solo esclusivamente ad invito. Maggiori dettagli sono disponibili in questo post. Condividi questo [...]
August 7th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Mine is already there! Not much seems to be working right now, but I’m hoping that it fixes itself by morning. Otherwise I may or may not have a bad day tomorrow.
(My “tomorrow morning” is your evening, I probably.)
August 7th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Oh!!! That´s good i i ´m spanish and a seems to wordking dreamhsot.
August 8th, 2007 at 3:52 am
And I thought it was Dreamhost PS as in “PlayStation”… I had high hopes there for a moment… :-)
August 10th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
[...] I’ll give you a clue. It has something to do with that new DreamHost PS service I mentioned a scant one post ago. [...]
August 13th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
[...] DreamHost Blog’s latest entry, What a CON!, where Josh Jones has again done what he does best — humiliating the whole HostingCon, [...]
August 16th, 2007 at 8:50 am
I signed up on the pre-order page as soon as I saw this announced. Still hoping to get an invite soon, as this looks like an awesome hybrid of a real VPS and a shared hosting acct. All the guaranteed resources of a VPS without having to play root every day. Looking forward very much to trying this out to see if it lives up to expectations!
August 16th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
What a sweet deal your DreamHost PS to bad it is by invitaion only. I wonder after your launch what your planning to price it out. I too am looking forward in seeing if it lives up to expectaion.
August 18th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
[...] up for Dreamhost PS which I remember doing, but I thought it was a joke. I’m pretty certain this post about it had something to do with that. Anyway, turns out somewhere in the migration across the [...]
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:24 am
(As seen on Dreamhosters’ blog.)
I’ve already received a Dreamhost PS. It works about the way promised: no root, but your own protected process space. Pretty much the same as shared server, only not as much shared.
The downside is quite obvious, when you think of it: 150Mhz/150MB(+150MB swap) is not going to get you anywhere. You have full access to your own little machine, but you can’t even momentarily burst to the full capacity of the server when you need it. If you run out of memory+swap, the PHP scripts instantly give the good old Internal Server Error. While it’s really easy to up the memory, it’s quite hard to see exactly what’s going on.
I have to admire how Dreamhost executed this. The “Adjust CPU/Memory” bar is brilliant. It looks so easy and hides the technical details below. Also, there has to be a lot of legroom on these servers, since the users are constantly fiddling with their sliders.
September 5th, 2007 at 8:35 am
[...] Eat THAT, commenters. [...]
September 6th, 2007 at 9:24 am
Dreamhost PS sucks.
I suggest to everybody that they should not come up with the idea of hiring him. Besides once activated they put a lot of snags to drop you on you or even they try simply to eliminate your account without no reason. The data that they put before hiring are totally false and can multiply for 4 or 5. It is an authentic theft. Ad very seriously.
September 10th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
I cant believe all this things happend!
November 5th, 2007 at 7:42 am
I just reread the article again. I didn’t know that about hostgator. Thanks for the heads up. Amazing what you find out when you read between the lines.