Comments on: The Four Horsemen of Marketing. http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/ Tales From the Inside! Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:35:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: John Droste http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-4137 John Droste Mon, 24 Apr 2006 06:37:32 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-4137 I'd say quality is higher on the list for Coke and lower on the list for Walmart. Maybe they want you to think that Walmart is quality, but come on! Honestly, I don't expect things from Walmart to last particularaly long. I'm not rich, but I'd rather spend an absolutley enormous amount of money on something, if I know it won't fail. Why? High residual value, inherent quality, product utility time after time, and less worries. I'd rather work harder than wonder if my leather shoes will hold up, or if my car will get me home. Because they will. The customers who matter, meaning the ones who will pay, and the ones who will recommend your product, care about quality first and foremost. See, the problem that you didn't address, is that good quality sets trends and it governs fashions. Your comparison between Fiat and Ferrari might even be totally irrelevant because it speaks nothing to the inherent quality of the product. Diesel jeans are fashionable because they're well made. Steer clear of avante garde fashion, and you're absolutely golden. Mainstays in fashion are somewhat timeless, and you can verify that with any expert if you'd like. Quality might be the most important factor and you can't progress anywhere without it. It depends on the customer's demands, so you can still make money with poor quality, but is that ethical? I’d say quality is higher on the list for Coke and lower on the list for Walmart. Maybe they want you to think that Walmart is quality, but come on! Honestly, I don’t expect things from Walmart to last particularaly long. I’m not rich, but I’d rather spend an absolutley enormous amount of money on something, if I know it won’t fail. Why? High residual value, inherent quality, product utility time after time, and less worries. I’d rather work harder than wonder if my leather shoes will hold up, or if my car will get me home. Because they will. The customers who matter, meaning the ones who will pay, and the ones who will recommend your product, care about quality first and foremost. See, the problem that you didn’t address, is that good quality sets trends and it governs fashions. Your comparison between Fiat and Ferrari might even be totally irrelevant because it speaks nothing to the inherent quality of the product. Diesel jeans are fashionable because they’re well made. Steer clear of avante garde fashion, and you’re absolutely golden. Mainstays in fashion are somewhat timeless, and you can verify that with any expert if you’d like. Quality might be the most important factor and you can’t progress anywhere without it. It depends on the customer’s demands, so you can still make money with poor quality, but is that ethical?

]]> By: A.Phoenix http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3412 A.Phoenix Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:27:57 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3412 I would say my experience with DH runs something like this: (Price, Quality), (Fashion, Visibility) It's hard for me to put price ahead of quality or vice versa; the same goes for fashion and visibility. I have been with a few hosts, and I have to say that Dreamhost is the best that I've come across. I fully acknowledge that there is occasional downtime, or slow periods, but I also recognize that, hey, it's hard to do what Dreamhost is doing, especially at the prices DH offers. I admin a few servers for my (professional) work and it is hard to have a 99% uptime, especially when you have too many people with their fingers in the pot, as it were. I think that many DH customers don't really think through the idea that DH needs to be up more. The thing I like about DH is the freedom that they give me in development. There's a definite air of "Hey, if you need it, you can get it" at DH that other hosts don't have. However, with these freedoms come problems - if someone runs a poorly coded python script, for example, they can take out a server. This somehow becomes DH's fault. Or if there's a power outage, or a massive attack on DH servers, people blame DH. My point of view is that DH is good enough to make sure that people know what's happening when there is an outage and works to quickly resolve every problem I experience. I'll say that again; every time I've had a problem, Dreamhost resolves it quickly. Before rushing to judge Dreamhost, or claiming *in their blog* that they suck, I invite you to try administering a server that has a hundred websites on it. See how far you get. See how many people break your server and then say that it's your fault. Overall, try to come back and reassure those people that you're doing everything you can and don't cut those people off when they publicly claim that you're doing a poor job. DH -> you guys are doing a great job. Keep it up. I would say my experience with DH runs something like this: (Price, Quality), (Fashion, Visibility)

It’s hard for me to put price ahead of quality or vice versa; the same goes for fashion and visibility. I have been with a few hosts, and I have to say that Dreamhost is the best that I’ve come across. I fully acknowledge that there is occasional downtime, or slow periods, but I also recognize that, hey, it’s hard to do what Dreamhost is doing, especially at the prices DH offers. I admin a few servers for my (professional) work and it is hard to have a 99% uptime, especially when you have too many people with their fingers in the pot, as it were.

I think that many DH customers don’t really think through the idea that DH needs to be up more. The thing I like about DH is the freedom that they give me in development. There’s a definite air of “Hey, if you need it, you can get it” at DH that other hosts don’t have. However, with these freedoms come problems – if someone runs a poorly coded python script, for example, they can take out a server. This somehow becomes DH’s fault. Or if there’s a power outage, or a massive attack on DH servers, people blame DH. My point of view is that DH is good enough to make sure that people know what’s happening when there is an outage and works to quickly resolve every problem I experience. I’ll say that again; every time I’ve had a problem, Dreamhost resolves it quickly.

Before rushing to judge Dreamhost, or claiming *in their blog* that they suck, I invite you to try administering a server that has a hundred websites on it. See how far you get. See how many people break your server and then say that it’s your fault. Overall, try to come back and reassure those people that you’re doing everything you can and don’t cut those people off when they publicly claim that you’re doing a poor job.

DH -> you guys are doing a great job. Keep it up.

]]> By: Jameson http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3383 Jameson Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:16:22 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3383 Josh, you crazy! Coke: Visibility, <em>Quality</em>, then Fashion, then Price. Honda: Quality, Price, Fashion, Promotion. Apple: Fashion, Quality, Visibility, Price. Wal-Mart: Price, <em>Visibility</em>, then Fashion, <em>then</em> Quality. Think of Kathie Lee. It's about fashion and price. Lord knows it isn't about quality. Wal-Mart's message is basically. We're cheap, we're everywhere, and we're cuter than K-Mart (though barely). Quality doesn't come into it, and for their customers -- it doesn't matter. DreamHost: Price, Quality, Visibility, Fashion I found out about DreamHost based on the visibility (duh) -- a lot of sites I visit started having "Hosted by Dreamhost" links. I signed on because of the price and fashion (i.e., the web panel offers the features I want, and the service includes "fashionable" things like Apache and MySQL, as opposed to unfashionable things like IIS and MS Access or somesuch gobbledeygook). I stayed because of the quality. And I am among those who believe the quality (or, better, <em>reliability</em>) has faltered somewhat in the last 3-6 months, but I don't think the DreamHost blog is the place to make those declarations. Save it for the support forum, where it's more appropriate -- and more likely to generate a quick and useful response! I do think fashion can apply to a web host, for the reasons stated above and for other reasons like this blog and the monthly newsletter. These things show us that DreamHost values communication and transparency, and doesn't take itself too seriously. Plus, as Kinn says above, they value free speech! While hardly "in fashion" these days, that definitely scores DreamHost some style points! Josh, you crazy!

Coke: Visibility, Quality, then Fashion, then Price.
Honda: Quality, Price, Fashion, Promotion.
Apple: Fashion, Quality, Visibility, Price.
Wal-Mart: Price, Visibility, then Fashion, then Quality.

Think of Kathie Lee. It’s about fashion and price. Lord knows it isn’t about quality. Wal-Mart’s message is basically. We’re cheap, we’re everywhere, and we’re cuter than K-Mart (though barely). Quality doesn’t come into it, and for their customers — it doesn’t matter.

DreamHost: Price, Quality, Visibility, Fashion

I found out about DreamHost based on the visibility (duh) — a lot of sites I visit started having “Hosted by Dreamhost” links. I signed on because of the price and fashion (i.e., the web panel offers the features I want, and the service includes “fashionable” things like Apache and MySQL, as opposed to unfashionable things like IIS and MS Access or somesuch gobbledeygook). I stayed because of the quality.

And I am among those who believe the quality (or, better, reliability) has faltered somewhat in the last 3-6 months, but I don’t think the DreamHost blog is the place to make those declarations. Save it for the support forum, where it’s more appropriate — and more likely to generate a quick and useful response!

I do think fashion can apply to a web host, for the reasons stated above and for other reasons like this blog and the monthly newsletter. These things show us that DreamHost values communication and transparency, and doesn’t take itself too seriously. Plus, as Kinn says above, they value free speech! While hardly “in fashion” these days, that definitely scores DreamHost some style points!

]]> By: Pete in Support http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3376 Pete in Support Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:22:22 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3376 I wanted to make sure that people like Nate know they have a voice: The suggestions section of your panel is where you can vote for what you think are the most important features for us to work on. We really do pay attention to it.. It really only takes a few hundred customers banging at the suggestions box to get an idea seriously looked at! I myself have wanted to see something better than squirrelmail, but it's not as easy to replace as you might initially think due to some custom internal workings (such as the email address -> m1234567 mailbox mapping). I wanted to make sure that people like Nate know they have a voice: The suggestions section of your panel is where you can vote for what you think are the most important features for us to work on. We really do pay attention to it.. It really only takes a few hundred customers banging at the suggestions box to get an idea seriously looked at! I myself have wanted to see something better than squirrelmail, but it’s not as easy to replace as you might initially think due to some custom internal workings (such as the email address -> m1234567 mailbox mapping).

]]> By: Nate http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3372 Nate Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:30:01 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3372 Speaking of quality. When are you guys going to roll about a better webmail email client. I really like yahoo's new mail thats in beta. -Nate Speaking of quality. When are you guys going to roll about a better webmail email client. I really like yahoo’s new mail thats in beta.
-Nate

]]> By: Joe Grossberg http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3371 Joe Grossberg Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:54:08 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3371 <strong>Giving Dreamhost Some Credit...</strong> Well, I appreciate them letting me (and others) air their grievances publicly. I'm impressed that they didn't delete the negative...... Giving Dreamhost Some Credit…

Well, I appreciate them letting me (and others) air their grievances publicly. I’m impressed that they didn’t delete the negative……

]]> By: Phoinix http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3369 Phoinix Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:30:03 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3369 We're a fine art/design/craft studio that needs full up time on our site to make a living. Luckily we haven't experienced any problems with our hosting. (Aside from a poorly scheduled LA power outage). Support is outstanding as is the value. Admittedly, if that were to change, I would lose my sense of humor rather quickly. DH: Price, Quality, Fashion, Visibility I didn't see a noticeable amount of profanity or swearing… We’re a fine art/design/craft studio that needs full up time on our site to make a living. Luckily we haven’t experienced any problems with our hosting. (Aside from a poorly scheduled LA power outage). Support is outstanding as is the value. Admittedly, if that were to change, I would lose my sense of humor rather quickly.

DH: Price, Quality, Fashion, Visibility

I didn’t see a noticeable amount of profanity or swearing…

]]> By: Syody http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3368 Syody Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:12:16 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3368 I was very disappointed to see the swearing and crude language in this article. I would expect a lot better from a company like DreamHost. As for myself, I think DreamHost has done a very nice job with features and quality. My site has never gone down and the features DreamHost adds is very nice. However, my respect for DreamHost dropped when I read this article. The formatting errors combined with the vulgar language bothered me quite a bit. I think this article would have been wonderful without the profanity. I was very disappointed to see the swearing and crude language in this article.
I would expect a lot better from a company like DreamHost.
As for myself, I think DreamHost has done a very nice job with features and quality. My site has never gone down and the features DreamHost adds is very nice.

However, my respect for DreamHost dropped when I read this article. The formatting errors combined with the vulgar language bothered me quite a bit.
I think this article would have been wonderful without the profanity.

]]> By: David Smith http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3362 David Smith Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:30:26 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3362 <b>DreamHost 3 months ago:</b> Price, Quality, Visibility, I don't think Fashion comes into choosing a host. <b>DreamHost Now:</b> Price, Visibility, Quality, <b>Dreamhost 3 months from now?:</b> Hopefully Quality, Price, Visibilty. For me, price and quality were the biggest factors when I joined Dreamhost, of late though the quality has been slipping, I can only guess due to the latest plans which have created a great influx of customers causing an extra burden on the Dreamhost network, hopefully in the future Dreamhost can work on the "Quality" aspect in future. DreamHost 3 months ago: Price, Quality, Visibility, I don’t think Fashion comes into choosing a host.
DreamHost Now: Price, Visibility, Quality,
Dreamhost 3 months from now?: Hopefully Quality, Price, Visibilty.

For me, price and quality were the biggest factors when I joined Dreamhost, of late though the quality has been slipping, I can only guess due to the latest plans which have created a great influx of customers causing an extra burden on the Dreamhost network, hopefully in the future Dreamhost can work on the “Quality” aspect in future.

]]> By: James Higgins http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-3360 James Higgins Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:00:16 +0000 http://blog.dreamhost.com/2006/03/10/the-four-horsemen-of-marketing/#comment-3360 "honestly, really high quality is generally not worth the price to the mass market. But don’t worry, you don’t need perfect quality to survive.. you just need enough quality." Are you trying to make a statement here? Because DreamHost certainly does have sub-standard quality. Right now my web site is down. Well, technically it is "up" but every page it returns is empty. How nice, it must be great for server performance though. "All four must receive at least passing grades for your company to survive" I think DH needs to focus a lot more on Quality in the near future or, while you may survive, you're going to start loosing customers rather than gaining them. I suggested someone use your site awhile back, now I'm sorry about that because your poor quality (downtime, performance, etc) is affecting their site. Very soon I'll start doing e-commerce on my web site, and I'm truly concerned that DreamHost simply isn't up to par to handle that. If my site goes down, I'll loose money. I just started running a system to check my site every few minutes so I can fairly evaluate this. Unfortunately, it isn't looking for "blank" pages, so right now that script thinks my site is up - while it is not. Another nail in the DH coffin. Seriously, DreamHost is doing well on most things other than quality. Why quality is so damn low, though, I don't understand. I've done Internet system administration for ISPs, while it isn't trivial providing good uptime isn't exactly rocket science. Please, please, please improve your quality. I've heard complaints from several people I know who host using DH and we're all actively seeking alternative hosting. I'd rather stay with DH, but unless quality makes a substantial improvement I simply can't afford to. “honestly, really high quality is generally not worth the price to the mass market. But don’t worry, you don’t need perfect quality to survive.. you just need enough quality.”

Are you trying to make a statement here? Because DreamHost certainly does have sub-standard quality.

Right now my web site is down. Well, technically it is “up” but every page it returns is empty. How nice, it must be great for server performance though.

“All four must receive at least passing grades for your company to survive”

I think DH needs to focus a lot more on Quality in the near future or, while you may survive, you’re going to start loosing customers rather than gaining them. I suggested someone use your site awhile back, now I’m sorry about that because your poor quality (downtime, performance, etc) is affecting their site.

Very soon I’ll start doing e-commerce on my web site, and I’m truly concerned that DreamHost simply isn’t up to par to handle that. If my site goes down, I’ll loose money. I just started running a system to check my site every few minutes so I can fairly evaluate this. Unfortunately, it isn’t looking for “blank” pages, so right now that script thinks my site is up – while it is not. Another nail in the DH coffin.

Seriously, DreamHost is doing well on most things other than quality. Why quality is so damn low, though, I don’t understand. I’ve done Internet system administration for ISPs, while it isn’t trivial providing good uptime isn’t exactly rocket science.

Please, please, please improve your quality. I’ve heard complaints from several people I know who host using DH and we’re all actively seeking alternative hosting. I’d rather stay with DH, but unless quality makes a substantial improvement I simply can’t afford to.

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