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	<title>Comments on: Something Dumb</title>
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	<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/</link>
	<description>Tales From the Inside!</description>
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		<title>By: Dmitriy</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1980</link>
		<dc:creator>Dmitriy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1980</guid>
		<description>No mistake there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No mistake there?</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1167</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1167</guid>
		<description>*head explodes*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*head explodes*</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1165</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1165</guid>
		<description>Wait wait wait. I have the Sweet Dreams account. It says I have unlimited domains.. WHAT? Is that true? I dont have to buy any more booster packs for more domains??? Is that a mistake?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait wait wait. I have the Sweet Dreams account. It says I have unlimited domains.. WHAT? Is that true? I dont have to buy any more booster packs for more domains??? Is that a mistake?</p>
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		<title>By: Denis</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1133</link>
		<dc:creator>Denis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1133</guid>
		<description>I though Al GORE own the internet 
;D :P ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I though Al GORE own the internet<br />
;D :P ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1132</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1132</guid>
		<description>HOLY CRAP!  Unlimited domains?  Why&#039;d this happen quietly?

And the panel is cooler too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HOLY CRAP!  Unlimited domains?  Why&#8217;d this happen quietly?</p>
<p>And the panel is cooler too?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: darkwing duck</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1128</link>
		<dc:creator>darkwing duck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1128</guid>
		<description>Jason,

I agree that in general, /30 is wasteful, but the point of these allocations is that the address must be portable from one physical location, and network, to another. So I can pick up a host in Boston and move it to Minneapolis if necessary and keep the same IP, even if nothing else moves. Since this geographic portability and address stability happens to be important to the application, a /30 is the best approach that we&#039;ve found to do it.

I understand it&#039;s my own people&#039;s fault for allocating a /64 - that&#039;s why I made the point of saying I applied for the IPs internally :-)

I see your point about address fragmentation, and I&#039;m sure this is the motivation my local admins had behind their allocation practice. They&#039;re allocating out of a /48 network, I believe.

josh,

ARIN is almost certainly using automated tools to check. I don&#039;t know what they do - just a ping? If it&#039;s just a ping, it&#039;d be trivial to fake allocations. Just put a ton of IPs as virtual interfaces on some box and they&#039;ll all respond, even if you don&#039;t use them.

A guy I worked with in the mid-90&#039;s completely defrauded ARIN when they started requiring these justifications. He sent them detailed, but wholly fabricated documentation of our allocations, including invented conversations between real and fictional employees discussing various allocation issues. I found it amusing that he chose to make me the company&#039;s resident jack@ss and most of the profanity-laden comments had my name attached. He got the allocation he requested (easily 2-4 times what we really needed).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,</p>
<p>I agree that in general, /30 is wasteful, but the point of these allocations is that the address must be portable from one physical location, and network, to another. So I can pick up a host in Boston and move it to Minneapolis if necessary and keep the same IP, even if nothing else moves. Since this geographic portability and address stability happens to be important to the application, a /30 is the best approach that we&#8217;ve found to do it.</p>
<p>I understand it&#8217;s my own people&#8217;s fault for allocating a /64 &#8211; that&#8217;s why I made the point of saying I applied for the IPs internally :-)</p>
<p>I see your point about address fragmentation, and I&#8217;m sure this is the motivation my local admins had behind their allocation practice. They&#8217;re allocating out of a /48 network, I believe.</p>
<p>josh,</p>
<p>ARIN is almost certainly using automated tools to check. I don&#8217;t know what they do &#8211; just a ping? If it&#8217;s just a ping, it&#8217;d be trivial to fake allocations. Just put a ton of IPs as virtual interfaces on some box and they&#8217;ll all respond, even if you don&#8217;t use them.</p>
<p>A guy I worked with in the mid-90&#8217;s completely defrauded ARIN when they started requiring these justifications. He sent them detailed, but wholly fabricated documentation of our allocations, including invented conversations between real and fictional employees discussing various allocation issues. I found it amusing that he chose to make me the company&#8217;s resident jack@ss and most of the profanity-laden comments had my name attached. He got the allocation he requested (easily 2-4 times what we really needed).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1126</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1126</guid>
		<description>Hmm, theoretically I guess they could!

But hopefully ARIN would notice and figure it out... of course, if they just did it based on total usage, that couldn&#039;t happen!

I guess an argument against total usage is that it makes it harder to compile the report, and harder for ARIN to check. However, anybody making a report has an automated way to do it (nobody wants to do even 4,096 IPs by hand), and ARIN only randomly checks various IPs for accuracy, so having the full report wouldn&#039;t really add any work for anybody (besides the poor script creating the report)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, theoretically I guess they could!</p>
<p>But hopefully ARIN would notice and figure it out&#8230; of course, if they just did it based on total usage, that couldn&#8217;t happen!</p>
<p>I guess an argument against total usage is that it makes it harder to compile the report, and harder for ARIN to check. However, anybody making a report has an automated way to do it (nobody wants to do even 4,096 IPs by hand), and ARIN only randomly checks various IPs for accuracy, so having the full report wouldn&#8217;t really add any work for anybody (besides the poor script creating the report)!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: C Montoya</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1125</link>
		<dc:creator>C Montoya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1125</guid>
		<description>So if Microsoft could just re-allocate their latest allocation of IP&#039;s, and request another batch, and keep re-allocating and requesting, they could soon buy them all out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if Microsoft could just re-allocate their latest allocation of IP&#8217;s, and request another batch, and keep re-allocating and requesting, they could soon buy them all out?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1124</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1124</guid>
		<description>Oh, and even if (using /64 delegations) you cut the IPv6 network address space in half, there would be 2.2 x 10^20 (220,000,000,000,000,000,000) addresses for every square inch of the Earth&#039;s surface.  One of the primary goals of IPv6 wasn&#039;t to solve the issue of limited address availability, but rather to make network routing easier by trying to avoid address fragmentation within organizations; in that vein, 128-bit addresses were chosen (since they allow many, &lt;strong&gt;many&lt;/strong&gt; orders of magnitude more addresses than are needed, meaning that organizations can be given address blocks that are likewise many, &lt;strong&gt;many&lt;/strong&gt; more addresses than they need).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and even if (using /64 delegations) you cut the IPv6 network address space in half, there would be 2.2 x 10^20 (220,000,000,000,000,000,000) addresses for every square inch of the Earth&#8217;s surface.  One of the primary goals of IPv6 wasn&#8217;t to solve the issue of limited address availability, but rather to make network routing easier by trying to avoid address fragmentation within organizations; in that vein, 128-bit addresses were chosen (since they allow many, <strong>many</strong> orders of magnitude more addresses than are needed, meaning that organizations can be given address blocks that are likewise many, <strong>many</strong> more addresses than they need).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://blog.dreamhost.com/2005/09/26/something-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-1123</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dreamhost.com/?p=41#comment-1123</guid>
		<description>Darkwing duck, using /30 addresses internally is actually much more wasteful than you think -- because for each of those servers, you have two usable addresses &lt;strong&gt;and two entirely unusable addresses&lt;/strong&gt; (the network address and the broadcast address).  In general, if you put all the servers in the same larger subnet, you&#039;d be a lot better off.  Likewise, there&#039;s no reason why you can&#039;t have all the app servers on the same /64 IPv6 network -- the choice of allocating an entire /64 for each app server was one that you (or your organization) made, not the IPv6 gods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darkwing duck, using /30 addresses internally is actually much more wasteful than you think &#8212; because for each of those servers, you have two usable addresses <strong>and two entirely unusable addresses</strong> (the network address and the broadcast address).  In general, if you put all the servers in the same larger subnet, you&#8217;d be a lot better off.  Likewise, there&#8217;s no reason why you can&#8217;t have all the app servers on the same /64 IPv6 network &#8212; the choice of allocating an entire /64 for each app server was one that you (or your organization) made, not the IPv6 gods.</p>
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